working

[Cowtown Comedy]

Does anyone have the cold hard facts on what is considered "working illegally" in thailand? I have heard so many mixed stories. Some people have told me a pub owner cant even talk to his staff, because it is considered "work". I've also been told that even if you hold a work permit, its only for specific tasks. Your comments are more than welcome ...

[buksida]

The law states that you can only undertake the job written in your permit and in that province only and nothing more - farangs cannot do a job that a Thai can (eg bar work) so they have to be the "managing director" and cannot serve drinks or entertain clients (legally).

It all depends how strict local immigration is though, in some areas its pretty laid back and farangs can get away with it, in Hua Hin however you need a permit to fart.

I know of many that don't live here and work freely and I know of ones that do live here and have got busted for serving drinks or playing music.

Here is all the official gumph: http://www.doe.go.th/law_en.aspx

Particularly note this bit:

[johnnyk]

Its not even immigration you'd have to worry about. A local doesn't like you or thinks you are gaining advantage and suddenly the BiB turn up.

[buksida]

This is true ... and add to that your competitors, especially if they are farangs - will not think twice about grassing you up.

Double H ain't the place it used to be!
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Named must your fear be before banish it you can.

[chelsea]

Buksida, is there different laws in Koh Samui than the rest of Thailand.
When I was over there, European bar owners openly work in the bars (especially in the afternoons & early evenings), where as when I went to HH, most of the owners were paranoid about being seen to be helping the staff or even opening a beer.

Ok, I can fully understand about not employing backpackers etc to work in bars (most would not work for Thai wages anyway), but can see no reason why the owner cannot be able to assist staff especially when it is busy.

Most of the time it is the owners money that is keeping the business going, and therefore looking after the welfare of his Thai family (both close and distant in most cases). So why should he not be able to assist at busier times with serving or general running of the business.

After all if he is deported, his family is going to be the one that suffers in the long run.


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Always Borrow Money from a Pesimist. "They Never Expect it Back"

[buksida]

Its the same law country wide, its just enforced differently in different areas, some local police and immigration are a little more tolerant of farangs. HH seems one of the strictest and has got steadily worse over the past 5 years, it hasn't always been this bad.
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Named must your fear be before banish it you can.

[lomuamart]

Chelsea,
About 9 years ago, I was eventually persuaded, by my ex, to sit behind my bar and serve drinks to customers. I wasn't happy with this arrangement, but I knew other farang bar owners in town who did the same thing at that time so I went for it.
On the third night, I wasn't behind the bar (had probably fallen over somewhere) and the bib came in telling my ex that I shouldn't be behind the bar. I don't know whether they'd seen me there before or were just issuing general warnings to all and sundry down the soi, but I never did it again.
As Buksida said, HH has moved on enormously over the years and one of the aspects of that has been a more draconian enforcement of Imm laws regarding working. I say that with the proviso that the farang is not taking a job away from a Thai, but is actually helping to employ them.
All of a sudden, HH is "in the spotlight" for being paradise city with no crime, well-healed tourists and affluent retirees. Nothing wrong with that, but where did the good old days go when bar owners were warned by the local authorities that Imm were coming down from BKK in two days. "Please make us look good. Don't go behind the bar and we'll let you know when the Gestapo have left. Thanks?"
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"I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars - the rest I just squandered". George Best.

[Super Joe]

here's a list of jobs that a foreigner can not perform him/herself (but he/she can own a company and employ thai's to perform though)

its from the 'Alien Employment Act Royal Decree B.E. 2522 (1979)' and not to be confused with the 'foreign business act':

1. laboring
2. work in agriculture, animal breeding, forestry, fishing and farm supervision (excluding specialized skills for the branch, farm supervision or in the maritime fishing field)
3. masonry, carpentry or other construction work
4. wood carving
5. driving of motor vehicles or non-motorised carriers (except piloting international airplanes)
6. shop attendant and window salespeople
7. auctioneering
8. accountancy supervision, auditing or services in the accounting field (except occasional internal auditing)
9. gem cutting or polishing
10. hair cutting, hair dressing or beautician work
11. hand weaving
12. mat weaving or fabrication of wares from reed, rattan, kenaf, straw or bamboo pulp
13. manual fibre paper making
14. lacquerware making
15. Thai musical instrument fabrication
16. nielloware fabrication
17. goldsmith, silversmith, or other precious metalwork
18. bronzeware fabrication
19. Thai doll making
20. mattress or padded blanket fabrication
21. alms bowl fabrication
22. manual silk product fabrication
23. Buddha image fabrication
24. knife making
25. paper or cloth umbrella fabrication
26. shoemaking
27. hat making
28. brokerage or agency work (except international business)
29. engineering work, civil engineering branch involving designing, drawing, calculation, organization, research, planning, testing, construction supervision or advisory work (except work requiring specialized skills)
30. architectural work involving designing, drawing or estimating, also as construction supervision or advisory
31. dressmaking
32. pottery or ceramics
33. manual cigarette rolling
34. tourist guide or tour organizing agency
35. hawking business
36. Thai character typesetting
37. clerical or secretarial work
38. legal or litigation service.

[chelsea]

Lomu, I remmember the 1st year I was in HH, there was a londener guy that used to run the Shed Bar. I knew he owned the bar and was sitting with me having a drink.
When I wanted a drink, he said to me we would have to wait till his bar lady came back from getting some food as he had also had a warning about opening a bottle of beer for someone. There was no way that he would even think of going anywhere near the bar or the fridge to get a beer.

Just as I said, in Samui it is like being in a different country with the way that they run the bars there.
We had an Irish bar called Sruffy Murphy's next to our hotel and they actually had an Irish guy in their running the place just like a manger does here and in the UK. It was one of the busiest pubs on the Island and there was no hiding the fact that was what he was doing.

Just seems strange all the grief that people get in HH, perhaps not enough tea money being paid in the right places.

_________________
Always Borrow Money from a Pesimist. "They Never Expect it Back"

[dtaai-maai]

Oops, no. 33 is a bit of a problem for me...


More seriously, there are a couple of posts above about farangs 'shopping' farang business rivals. It's not really relevant to me (unless unemployed teachers are going to start telling my uni I'm crap...), but do these things really happen a lot in the cut-throat world of bars and property? Is it really that bad?
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Never argue with a man carrying a water buffalo...

[buksida]

[STEVE G]

I'd never even heard of item 16. before, it's:http://www.rubenvasquez.com/niello/examples.htm

[chelsea]

Steve G, Sure that link should not be rubensquez.com

_________________
Always Borrow Money from a Pesimist. "They Never Expect it Back"

[STEVE G]

It might make for a more interesting web-site, chelsea.

[chelsea]

steve G I was most dissapointed when I clicked the link and all I found was kettles and dishes

_________________
Always Borrow Money from a Pesimist. "They Never Expect it Back"