UK Barclays Bank customers

[lomuamart]

I've posted before about the trouble I've been having with ATMs here in town, using my Connect card.
While I was back home, I got a new one as the old one was going to expire in 9 months. Since I've been back, I'd reckon that I've not been able to use ATMs 50% of the times I've tried. I've always thought that it was the computers here not being able to check my account details back home.
Anyway, 30 mins or so ago, it came to my attention that Barclays were blocking all credit/debit card withdrawals from ATMs in Thailand.
I've just come off the phone from the security department in England. Basically, they confirmed this. As there is such a problem here now with cloning cards, an ATM (say at my local 7-11) will give me money on one occasion. Barclays then block the card from being used at that ATM again. This explains why I can sometimes get money from others. Strictly speaking, the girl said that I shouldn't really be able to use any ATM. I can always get money from inside the bank using my passport as ID, but it dosn't help matters at the weekend or late at night.
Anyway, I've confirmed to Barclays that it is indeed me who's using the card and they have 8.5 years history of ATM withdrawals from my account here, so everything should be hunky dory from tomorrow.
If there's anyone else out there who is experiencing problems, the international number you'll need is +44 1604 614812. They'll guide you through unblocking the card.
Chang tokens again, I hope.

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"I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars - the rest I just squandered". George Best.

[Onlyme]

Lomumart. You being an English guy and with all the information at your fingertips..........................To say that you've dissapointed me would be an understatement.
Nationwide is the way to go. I've rabbited on about them for years on any board I can!

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[sargeant]

Lomu have you struck a nerve, me and my mate in my soi have suffered the same crap since dec. It infuriated me because i use the same ATM 3/4 times a month to draw my pension and my records go back 5 years on that same ATM machine. Its not just the cloning of cards when pressed they talked about wives drawing for years on a dead guy.

This month is the first time we have had no crap.

Next time you get blocked (ring and i will get you the number to reverse charges from a house phone not a mobile if you want it) Demand them to send you details of the banking ombudsman, then tell them you have 2 friends who have been switched on for 2 years and you want the same service.
It worked for me first and then i stood by my mate and he got the same using same tactic.
Best of luck and if you need any help let me know.
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A Greatfull Guest of Thailand

[sargeant]

Onlyme yes my sis and binl said same but for me to open an account means i have to go back and i was with you all the way. However my fam tried every thing but to open an account i am afraid cannot do from here. So unless lomu is going to the uk i am afraid its a no go wish it was though id change in a flash if i could but a plane trip nooooo way
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A Greatfull Guest of Thailand

[lomuamart]

Thanks, Sargeant. Might take you up on that. I'll check the ATM I regularly have problems with, just up the road, first.
Barclays did say that the card would be unblocked and to call again if I had any more problems.
Amazing they don't tell customers about this first. All my banking correspondence goes to my parents, and if there had been any notification of moves like this, the information would have been forwarded on to me.
Can you imagine what it would be like for a visitor here who'd, for instance, posted a question on HHAD (and there have been) asking about the reliability of ATMs here? I, together with many others, have given positive feedback in the past, because there previously weren't any problems. I know that you should have back-up if you're expecting to live on ATM withdrawals over here, but I'm sure plenty of people, particularly younger ones, will just rely on the plastic. Not a great holiday if you have problems getting your money every time you want.
I also feel sorry for the Thai banks I went into. Some of them got a seriously hard time from me when I thought it was their computers playing up. Kor tort, kap
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"I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars - the rest I just squandered". George Best.

[lomuamart]

I was back a month ago and got all the Nationwide details from my brother while there. Other than the above problem, I've never had an issue with Barclays. Yes, they charge me for ATM withdrawals, but I only use one maybe 5 times a month, so I'm not losing a fortune - although I do appreciate that the charges are better kept in my pocket, rather than someone else's.
Not that I wish it on you, Onlyme, or anyone else, but who's to say that the other banks don't follow suit? Credit and debit card fraud has got huge in Thailand again.
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"I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars - the rest I just squandered". George Best.

[Farang]

'
For a score of years I’ve had a Barclays Visa card, an a/c at Barclays to pay for my use of Visa and an
arrangement where the a/c holding part of the Barclays automatically pays to Barclay Visa dept. whatever
silliness I’ve used my Visa on.

Nice automatic arrangement, inn’t?

Yes, it is, only it suddenly stopped working and my Visa was frozen with no “by your leave” whatsoever.
And you find out about this flashfreeze only when in situation where you are using your card.
Such as when paying a large hotel bill or airline ticket.

This happened to me and I really was in hot water, as I could not use the card at the ATM either.
There always was money on the a/c, it was never overdrawn and I had perfect credit history.

It took me several months of correspondence to sort out the mess created by Barclays.
Once it was sorted out they were very apologetic about it all muttering Many Words about Thailand and such.
They even gave me £50 for my aches, pains and toil.

I considered it as a parting gift as we twain, B and my low self, were, alas,
so cruelly rendered asunder never to rendezvous anew.

As far as I am concerned the proper acronym for Barclays is BS.
,

[billseymour]

Just to let you know that it isn't only UK banks that are seeing debit card fraud as endemic in Thailand.

I use Wells Fargo Bank in California, and had similar experiences about a year ago when my ATM card suddenly ceased functioning. I contacted the bank (I have a close personal friend as my account officer), and was told that due to the severity of the problem in Thailand, WFB is purging its files for all Thailand ATM transactions at random intervals, but at least every 45 days. During the purge, which takes two days, no WFB ATM cards will function in Thailand.

They have a procedure for known, regular users such as myself to be automatically refreshed after the purge, which I have invoked. But I still have to watch out for those two-day intervals, when nothing works.

[Wanderlust]

bill,
That sounds like a more likely scenario for what Barclays are doing too; I too have a Barclays Connect card, and if one ATM won't accept it, none of them will, and it is normally for 2 or 3 days. I am able to return to any previously used ATM after that and draw money again though. This has only been happening this year - before there were occasional problems which rarely lasted more than a few hours, but now it is getting ridiculous.
On the subject of Nationwide, I banked with them for many years, and had a mortgage with them, which they well and truly messed up - in essence I had signed up for a repayment mortgage, but some over-zealous Nationwide employee had put it as an endowment, when they were all the rage. Happily paid whatever was asked every month without fail, but five years down the line my wife and I divorced and had to settle about the house, and only then did we discover the error. Months of haggling over something which was proven to be their fault (we had a copy of the original mortgage application!) ensued before getting the Banking Ombudsman involved, and even then we were left out of pocket despite being completely right. Avoid Nationwide like the plague! Obviously everyone has problems with their bank from time to time, and I judge the bank on how well they deal with them, and Barclays are particularly good at this I have found, especially on the phone. It sounds like lomu is of a similar opinion?

[lomuamart]

I will be, WL, if the card works later today. They said it would now.
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"I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars - the rest I just squandered". George Best.

[sargeant]

Just been to mate to check he was ok this month as well answer yes.
I estimate it has cost me over 200 pounds in phone calls this year which should be in my pocket.
It is bloody annoying that after 6 months and 200 + quid and threatenig the banking ombudsman the guy on the phone just as casual as you like gave me a reverse charge number and equally casually said and i quote {thats ok sir i have just annotated your account for 2 years so you shouldnt need that number.}
maybe you having a uk address and drawing in thailand might flag it up My bank knows full well i live in thailand so have no excuse i have 9 years of bank statements posted to thailand and only once have i used my card in the uk (they didnt flag it then)

p.s i did have one month when it was the bank of ayudhayas computer went down
anyway best of luck
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A Greatfull Guest of Thailand

[Guess]

I am getting that ratty smell again. based upon the fact that I worked very closely with the wholesale and retail sectors for many years and also have had many accounts in the UK. Here is my bit.

The issuing bank (the bank that provided you with the card) retains the right at any time to block any transaction for any reason it chooses. Obviously market forces dictate that a decision to block a transaction or a source of a transaction is not taken lightly.

It seems that the experiences of wanderlust and lomu are not quite the same. On the one hand a particular outlet (this could be an EFTPOS or and ATM) has been blocked and on the other hand the issuer has blocked any transaction request from anywhere in Thailand. To make either of those decisions the bank would need very reliable information regarding the source of fraud and also advice from the Bank of England and APACS. (a BoE body that regulates these things in the UK).

Unless there was some specific need for secrecy it would be public knowledge and all banks would adopt a similar policy at the same time. For the decision to be bank specific is nonsense. The only analogy I can think of is: There has been an increase in motorcycle accidents causing death in Piccadilly so the remedy would be, ban Hondas on Monday, Suzuki’s on Tuesday, Kakas on Friday etc..

The thieves just wait until the time is right for them to commit their crime.

One thing that is important to know all over the world is that the PIN is the only way to unlock an ATM for your use. So long as you keep it safe nobody else, even the bank employees cannot get it. So cloning your card will not help at all. The thief still needs your PIN.

The rat I smell is that this fraud is coming from a much higher level than at the street.

When you key in your PIN the ATM encrypts it into a 128 bit number using a 128 bit encryption key which any responsible bank would change every day at least. My guess is in Thailand as in many countries in South America and Eastern Europe that this policy is not adhered to. The thief can then hack into the communications network and build up a database of all users along with the all necessary details and the encrypted PIN. He can get hold of the encryption algorithm fairly easily as all issuing and acquiring banks must have a copy. All he needs then is the key.

In the West the key is generally changed every day and often held in parts by different people. (I.e. 2 people have a copy of the first 32 bits, two other people have a copy of the second 32 bits etc.) No single person then ever has the whole key.

This of course is not the West and the practices used by the acquiring banks here may not be so stringent.

In the West the banks stick rigidly to their arse covering policy that the PIN system is 100% safe and if money has been stolen from an ATM then you must have let someone know your PIN.

However if someone can prove that he used the card in Chang Mai at 07:00AM and it was then used again at 07:15AM in Hua Hin, the bank may have a problem.

The only action that the bank can then take is to block transactions from areas where many credible fraud cases have been reported. At the moment Thailand is one of those places.

My advice as usual is F**k the banks use cash wherever possible. All forms of plastic are designed to make the bank shareholders richer, not for the convenience of the customer.
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[lomuamart]

Partly agree with that Guess, but the problem of cloning cards has been around for years. In my case, there has been no fraudulent activity on my account. I simply can't access my loot from an ATM in Thailand - at the moment.
I've just returned from two local ATMs. It's the same bloody message, despite the bank's assurance last night that the card was unblocked.
I've called security again just now and they say there is nothing showing on their computer that I attempted to use an ATM. "Uh, it was 10 mins ago". "Don't worry, Mr Lomu, we know immediately". Their only suggestion, that does make sense, is if the link's down between the two countries. She said this does happen occasionally, especially around this part of the world. Hence their having no immediate record of my trying to access one.
Another thing I complained about was the lack of notification from the bank that my card was about to be blocked. She found that strange, saying that a telephone call would be made to a number given by me, anywhere in the world first. It did occur to me that I havn't possibly kept my personal details up-to-date with them. Ie, they don't know my land line number at home, so if a call was made, it was probably to a defunct number. That's my responsibility to change/notify and I accept that, so it's easily remedied with a letter to England.
So, after this gripe (and I'm only explaining what has been told me directly by the bank on two occasions since 10pm last night), I'm off to the Bangkok Bank, with my passport and hopefully they'll be as accommodating as they were a few days ago.
If however, the link is down and their machine inside dosn't authorise the transaction, I've got the reverse charge number for BB to call. Should be interesting to see if they're willing to make it. Barclays said that strictly speaking, any bank here should make that call for authorisation anyway if I'm not entering my PIN.
For everyones' benefit, it was confirmed again that the block has been taken off my card, but the girl suggested that I might unfortunately still experience problems form time-to-time with ATMs, for the next couple of months.
AAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH.
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"I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars - the rest I just squandered". George Best.

[sargeant]

Guess everything you say is probably correct but barclays seem to be at a totally different level to any other.
I am certain with the number of phone calls (+expence 200+quid) there are barclays staff who know my mothers maiden name better than me.
My account has had 4 different addresses here in thailand and recieved bank statements for 9 years each and every month to all of them

i have exclusively used the same ATM every transaction. I also only use my atm 3/4 times a month 27/28/29 (the only 3 days a month mrs sarge loves me according to dawn )
(sorry dawn couldnt resist the chance i am fat i am bald and mrs sarge is snip of a 42 year old )
After much screaming i even have there quote {fraud proof} chip and pin card it made naff all difference(scratch and sniff i call it) and yet i had the same problem as lomu and wanderlust.

At no time in the previous 6 months was a reverse charge phone number mentioned at no time even after proving my self time after time did anyone switch me on for quote 2 years it only happened when i threatened the banking ombudsman.

Just read your latest lomu that was most of the problem me and my mate had to face they keep changing the excuses the question for you is why arent me and my mate experiencing this this month if its blanket we should have had the same problems and we havent???

I have an ex barclays international bank manager friend and he had similar problems so at least it isnt class based

Personally i reckon its just bored barclays staff running a sweepstake and when my mothers maiden name came up the guy on the phone won the pot
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A Greatfull Guest of Thailand

[STEVE G]

I have a Lloyds ATM account, and the bizarre thing is I have just spent a month in Thailand with absolutely no problem at all, but over the last year I have had the card blocked three times after using it in Luxembourg, which has about the lowest crime rate in Europe.
With Lloyds you can call an international call centre and they unblock it straight away, but it’s annoying having to make an international call every time, and listen to all those silly recorded options.