Thai Attitude's to farrang

[BEARHUG]

TAKEN FROM THE STICKMAN SITE, this a postee agonising over a “typical Thai woman” and “Thai women who date farangs.”

I will say that the experiences that many farang men have had with Thai women are tragic and sad and I feel for these guys. But collectively, they seem to paint a rather unflattering - and grossly unfair - picture of Thai women as a whole. What farang men never want to concede is that they all seem to be drawing water from the same tainted well, which is why they disproportionately get the unsavoury stuff. To put it bluntly, there is a huge difference between a “typical Thai woman” and “Thai women who date farangs.” This is going to be harsh, but it explains why so many farangs seem to get the short end of the stick with so many Thai women.

Just a little about me. I’m a Thai, born in the USA, but raised in both the US and Thailand. I’m fluent in Thai, but actually prefer English as I believe it to be my native language. I’m now here in Thailand to stay. I have MANY farang colleagues and friends. I must say that most of my closest friends, here and back in the states, are farangs so I’m certainly not going to mindlessly bash farangs here. But believe me when I tell you that Thais will share with me stuff that they’ll NEVER share with farangs, not even if they’re married to one. And I’ll say this - most of the farangs in Thailand really don’t get it. They really don’t see how things are, how they’re perceived by the average Thai, men and women, what Thais talk about when farangs aren’t around, why Thai people “smile” a lot, etc. All they know is what their wife or GF or their small circle of friends and relatives have told them, which is of course usually completely biased and distorted. But on rare occasions, I’ll read something from a farang and I’ll say to myself, “man, this dude gets it.” Your comment about the Isaan women in your 17 July 05 column shows that you “get it.” (from your thread: “The average Western guy seems to have a thing for the women of Isaan, as opposed to women from other parts of Thailand. They'll say they like short, dark-skinned girls with a 6 year school education but perhaps the truth lies in the fact that Isaan women often throw themselves at the first farang that comes anywhere near them”). I’ll go a step further and quote the words of an American comedian who once said something to the effect that “the woman that most men get are frankly the best that they could do with the options available.” More on this later.

So why do farang men seem to frequently find the worst of Thailand when it comes to Thai women? Firstly, farang men do have a reputation in Thailand, some good, some not so good. I’ll narrow it down to the two that seems to matter most. (1) Thais think that all Farangs are wealthy. Can be good and bad...more on that later. (2) Thais believe that farang men are whore-chasers and connoisseurs of low-class women. Farangs need to understand Thai’s belief in class distinction to really appreciate the importance of number 2. And before you go about beating up Thais for falsely believing number 2, understand that Thais know what’s going on in Pattaya, Phuket, and the seedier areas of Bangkok. They see farang guys trying to pass their hookers off as girlfriends and they know. Heck, everyone knows. So if you want to blame anyone, blame these true whore-chasers who are still out there every single day. It never ceases to amaze me how farangs get upset when Thai folks mistakenly assume their wives/GFs are hookers, yet see for themselves other farangs with hookers and don’t even bat an eye. Thais only believe that Thai women with farangs are BGs/ex-BGs because it’s true the majority of the time.

Back to the topic. So Thai women believe that farangs are wealthy. What kind of women will this attract? Well, certainly women who are into money. I’ll say that most women consider this to be desirable, but only a few believe it to be the most important thing. The ones who have it on the top of their priority list will certainly be after guys that have it. But then there’s the number 2 rep that farangs carry around, the whore-chasing thing. Most Thai girls are actually conservative by nature and really don’t want to be seen as “that sort of woman.” So that takes out the “nice” girls. And the women that are educated and well-off - well they don’t need that stigma either. I mean, why be looked at as some low-class gold-digger when you’ve already got your own money? So what you’re left with are the poor desperate types who really aren’t concerned about their reputation or what other people think because quite frankly, they have much more pressing problems.

So what I’m saying is that farangs have got the typical Thai women pegged all wrong, yet they’re probably right about the Thai women that they’ve been with. And this is because most of the Thai women that farangs end up with are not typical Thai women. Most farangs are not going to want to believe this. They’ll want to believe what the women who they’ve met have told them, that farang guys are every Thai women’s desire, that Thai guys are all drunks and cheats, blah, blah, blah. But seriously, what else are these women going to tell you? That they’d rather be with a Thai guy, but are with the farang for financial reasons? I’m sure that will go over well with most farangs. The truth is probably that many of these women have had some bad experiences with Thai guys and although they’d still prefer a decent Thai guy, he’s probably out of reach. And the clock is ticking for her and her family. So why is this “decent Thai guy” so out of reach for these “Isaan” type women?

There’s a well-kept secret in Thailand that every Thai person seems to know but no farang does (or maybe can’t grasp what it means). It boggles my mind actually because you can’t get three Thai people to agree on anything but nearly everyone agrees on this, both men and women. That farang men only date ugly Thai women. Now this is where there’s a huge perception difference between Thai and farang men. It’s the Isaan factor again, but let me try to explain it so that the average farang can relate. Thais look at dark-skinned women sort of the same way that Americans look at fat white women. Most American guys don’t dream of waking up every morning next to an obese woman, but admittedly, some guys are into that sort of thing. And if you are, you’ve got the pick of the litter. And that’s how it is with Isaan type women. Thai men of reasonable means are not going to be interested in these type of women and these women know it. Don’t believe me? Heck, just watch some Thai TV and see what they’re touting in the commercials. Constantly seeing products that are alleged to lighten women’s skin. Look at the Thai women soap stars. Certainly doesn’t fit the profile of a girl typically seen with a farang. Now I honestly don’t believe that farangs “prefer” these Isaan type of women, although most seem content with anyone who’s thin and young, regardless of what they look like. But that’s really all that’s available to most farangs.

Something interesting that I’ve noticed is that it’s almost pointless to be a good-looking farang guy in Thailand. Because you’re going to have access to the same pool of women as that fat, hairy, smelly, 55 year old German guy sitting at the end of the bar. You’re not going to have access to the same type of women that I have - and I say this almost apologetically. Back in the states, you see a good looking guy and you expect him to be with an attractive woman. And he almost always is. But here, you see a good-looking farang guy and chances are that his GF/wife will be the same Isaan-type woman that all the other farang guys run around with. There’s a young farang guy in my company who’s got the classic GQ look. I mean this guy would be a serious ladies-man back in the states. Nice guy too. Yet, his girlfriend is just oh-so-typical Isaan-type. And another guy, not as GQ, but in his late 20’s, better than average looking, making solid money, and his new wife has two kids (not his), and of course...well, no need to beat a dead horse. Nothing wrong with this, by the way, if they’re happy. Just an observation.

Which brings me back to the “secret” thing. It’s not really the intention of Thais to deceive farangs here or keep him from the truth. Thais really don’t like hurting people’s feelings, farangs or otherwise. But there’s no way to tell the guys and honestly, why would we want to? If the woman is attractive to you (and a good person to boot), it shouldn’t matter what everyone else thinks (ever seen the American movie Shallow Hal?). I’ve run into many situations where my farang colleagues or friends would show me a picture of their new GF, just gushing with their new found love expecting me to shower him with compliments of what a Goddess she was. Believe me, these gals were almost always hideous, but I just usually nod in agreement. What the heck am I going to say?

My advice to farang men who are still searching for love: if a Thai woman comes after you, watch out. As I said before, Thai women are conservative by nature. This is how a “nice” Thai girl approaches a guy she’s interested in. Has happened to me countless times. Her friend or acquaintance will approach me and say that someone’s really interested and see if I’m available. I’ll ask some questions and the friend will never reveal who it is until he/she knows that it’s a green light. I always end up saying I have a girlfriend (which I do) and I’ll never find out who this girl is. But if she approaches me directly, it will be very subtle and it won’t even appear like she’s interested. If a Thai woman drops these subtle hints and the guy doesn’t get it (or isn’t interested), she won’t pursue you for long. Point here is that they are very conservative when it comes to courtship and the man really has to be the aggressor. If the woman is the aggressor, then she’s really not the type of woman that I’d be interested in. Women libbers in the states are going to hate this, but that’s still the way it is in Thailand.

Something else: if she says that she really likes farang guys and that’s what she’s looking for, don’t just walk away - freakin run. Because what she’s essentially saying is that she wants a farang guy and ANY farang will do. You’re nothing special, just the target of opportunity. And why do you think she prefers a farang guy? Hint: it’s got nothing to do with your charm and personality (check number 1 above). Why would you want to be with a woman who’d basically take up with any other farang guy if given the opportunity? What you really want is a Thai woman who’s not interested in a farang guy. Actually prefers a Thai guy. You win over that sort of woman and you’ve got something. Then you’ll know that she’s interested in you for you and nothing else. But it’d really help if you took the time to learn some Thai. I’d be a little suspicious of an uneducated Thai woman who speaks English a little too well, but that’s another topic for another time.

Has he got it??

[buksida]

Some valid points, some truth, and a whole load of generalisation IMO. The last couple of sentences were about the best.

Incidentally BEARHUG, I've noticed you're a bit of a copy/paste merchant, do you yourself not have any opinion?
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[Bamboo Grove]

Interestin post and while I do agree to some extent, you do make a lot of generalizations (mayby that's what you wanted.) Like with other human behaviour, no matter what nationality, there are good people and bad people. I wonder what made you write this post as these things have been discussed quite often in various forums. What I disagree with you is when you say that foreigners find it difficult to find other Thai women than bar girls. In my 18 years in this fair country I've seen many relationships with foreigners and what you call "nice" girls. There have been succesful relationships and unsuccesful, same as what you call "low class" girls. The greed doesn't come along with class, it exists in every social class. I've seen wealthy Thai women (and men) who want more and more money not caring what happens to other people around them, this includes other Thais and even their relatives. I've seen "low class" people who are willing to give what little to have to their visitors. I could go on but I think it's unnecessary. You've written a long post so I don't think your sole purpose is to cause a heated discussion. It will, however, most likely happen. Hopefully everyone can keep their feelings cool and language moderate.
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[Jockey]

I dont think starting a new thread using someone else's post from a completely different forum is a good thing.

[prcscct]

Since it's a quoted source from a publication, and deals with Thailand, it probably belongs in the NEWS section. Pete

[buksida]

[PJG]

All I have to add as A Farang Guy married for 22 years to a College educated Thai Girl from Bangkok for 22 years is that it is fairly stupid to lump everyone to-gether in generalizations. Get a life Bearhug and get that chip off your shoulder.

I was thinking that while I was trying to stay awake ploughing through the essay that reformed smokers are always the most anti.

[Huahinian]

Please bear in mind this is a "copy and paste" job and not necessarily Bearhugs own opinion. Whilst there are some interesting points in the original posting, I feel it smacks of class discrimination.
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If patience is a virtue, I must be a saint!

[prcscct]

A few comments:

1) The author doesn't really say anything new or earth shattering.

2) He seems to really need to make the point that he is American/Thai, or Thai/American? I feel there may be a bit of an identity problem in his own mind as well.

3) In Thailand, Japan and all of Asia, "whiteness" is something that offsets them from the manual labor working class. Especially concerning what women want to appear to be, whether they are or not. This is a centuries old thing.

4) In the West, a good tan on a woman or man is attractive. Whereas, a very pale person is not usually attractive, and actually brings to mind ill health. 100% this is a major reason why farangs here find darker people attractive. Opposites attract I guess.

5) In America, and I believe true for most of EU as well, class structure means very little except to those that are very wealthy. For most, if two people are attracted to each other, all the rest is meaningless, as it should be. Each has strengths and good traits that complement each other. I've posted recently about "mixing", it's a proven success story.

6) In Thailand and all of Asia concerning the locals, how much beneficial genetic diversity, true physical chemistry, love, and happy lives have been thrown out the window due to class structure and dark colored vs white colored skin? Truly, it's very sad.

A common reply to what I'm saying could be.."Well, it's our country and customs..." Again, truly sad and short sighted. However, even more sad as the argument will fall on deaf ears most of the time. Pete

[Rider]

For me and many of my friends this is pretty much old news, most expats who are single certainly and have their heads screwed on will be aware of the 'thai scene' when it comes to courtship and what girls are 'good' and what girls tend to be 'bad'.

I think Bearhugs cobbled together post is wisdom for newbies here in LOS who may think they know the score but don't.

A classic hallmark with thai women in general is that if they are single and work the bar, they almost always have kids from previous relationships.
Plenty of blokes fall for chicks like this and only at the last minute find out the baggage that comes with BG / Ex BGs.
The girls that don't have baggage tend to be harder to get as they are still 'purer' in thai eyes.
After a girl has 'been' with a farang they are often considered completely 'untouchable' by thai men. Given the treatment of thai women by some thai men, its often mentioned as a 'badge of honour' by some thai chicks!
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[GLCQuantum]

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[HHTel]

Bearhug, your post seems almost racist within your own race!! I wonder what your real feelings are.

You seem to imply that Farangs (and their wealth) are responsible for the 'low class' sex workers. I'm sure you know that the sex industry within the Thai population is huge and if the Farangs pulled out of this scene it wouldn't make a pinprick in the sex industry in Thailand.

I agree with some of your sentiments but disagree strongly in your implication that the average farang is partnered with a BG/ex BG.

You mention the white faced actors/actresses on TV and the movies. A big percentage of these are leuk kungs as I'm sure you're probably aware.

I think, Bearhug, that you need to take a closer look at your own country. Thailand, that is, not the States.

[caller]

To repeat what has been said earlier - ITS NOT BEARHUG - he has simply copied an article from a popular Bkk website that some people, me included, think is tedious crap. Read Bearhug's first 2 lines in the OP and all is revealed.
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[HHTel]

Sorry. By the time I'd finished reading the post, I'd completely forgotton the first two lines so my comments are directed at the original writer.

[HHTel]

I'm going to take a leaf out of Bearhugs book and quote a letter published recently in the Bangkok Post. Comments are of course welcome.

"Tourists take a clear dislike to unclean beaches like Cha-am, rip-off tactics and the insane two-tier pricing policies common in most parts of the kingdom. Equally, the all too ready and all too often false smiles greeting foreign tourists in Thailand are rapidly losing their appeal, and are more and more seen for what they are: a facade at best and often a lie.
Crime in Thailand, against Thais as well as against tourists, has increased to a level where Thailand is in real danger of losing it's characterisation of being safe. Certainly, there are far, far worse places in this world regarding crime rates, but the sad truth remains thqt Thailand's crime rate is increasing.
More and more frequently, tourists are seen as easy targets.
Thailand used to be a very beautiful and genuinely friendly country some 20 odd years ago.
However, a stroll along most beaches, or through most national parks (after the foreigner has been relieved of truly excessive amounts of cash through entry fees), resembles at times more a stroll through a world of carelessly discarded rubbish than a trip to one of Thailand's otherwise truly magnificent natural attractions.
It's interesting to see tourists carrying their rubbish, often for long stretches until they finally find a rather rare disposal bin.
On the other hand, Thais can be seen all too often throwing their rubbish with abundant care into their once lovely natural surroundings or simply leaving it on the beach.
Mai pen rai!
The next tide is sure to carry it away and on th the next beach, and therefore out of the offending Thai's sight and out of his mind.
And should a foreigner who is able to communicate in Thai dare to kindly remind such offending Thai that perhaps it might be wiser to take the rubbish along to the next bin, he/she is confounded with a wail of abuse and disrespect that has nothing at all to do with kindness or understanding, let alone friendliness!
Some of my friends who have been here for more that 18 years have recently moved back to Europe and Australia, respectively - often out of sheer disgust with Thailand, thais and the increasingly anti-foreign attitudes displayed lately so abundantly by Thais in gerneral, as well as in Thai politics.
And that is a real shame, to put it mildly. I know many Thais that I hold in high regard and respect tremendously for thier kindness and their genuine hospitality. However, these are a minority, and, one could argue, a dying breed.
Sadly, more and more Thais that I come into contact with through my work at university, or even in my daily life, have little regard for foreigners, have become careless, greedy and are all too often utterly disrespectful."

I believe there's a lot of truth in that. However, Comments Please!!