How Do You Handle Living Here?

[buksida]

[SuperTonic]

[edwinadanish]

[Jockey]

You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave mwoohoowhahahahaha!

[crazy88]

Spoken like a true buddhist edwina .Perhaps you should try something more broad minded like scientology .



crazy 88

[expatkat]

Oh dear edwinadanish for someone who appears to advocate 'free speech' you are not being very tolerant are you? We all have a right to our opinions and if you care to re read your posts you came across as quite critical of this country and the people who live here and choose to live here, I feel for you as you sound like you are struggling to come to terms with something quite what I can't tell. Would you care to pm me as I am a reiki healer and you may find this benefical or you may not. As they say its a free country and we are all entilttled to our beliefs.

[bradders]

Edwina, When you created your post what sort of reaction did you honestly anticipate? Did you expect everyone - or the majority - to agree with you?

IF that were so I doubt there would have been no more than a couple of replies because if the majority shared your anxieties they would surely have up & gone from Thailand - in fact HHAD would probably struggle to exist simply through lack of numbers!

You wrote: "Does no-one have the energy/guts/will/values to even have an opinion?"

With respect, how on earth can you suggest there is "lack of opinion" when you analyse the responce you've generated?

You may not agree (or prefer not to agree) with the majority of the postings BUT please take into consideration these ARE the thoughts & opinions of those either residing in or have long term experience of Thailand. IMHO there's been a great deal of thought giving to the replies, I consider the majority very meaningful and balanced, and - if not agreeing with you - attempting to help and assist you.

I don't wish to digress from the issue but I've noticed during my time at HHAD a large number of the members residing in HH, Cha Am & Thailand are generally well travelled and have experienced residing in other countries (less fortunate than their origan) before settling in Thailand. I believe this will have provided good grounding as no doubt they will have experienced the distinct differences and frustrations of living outside their native country and will have assisted in preparing them mentally as to their expectations.

I'm from the UK and have lived in the Middle East for 21 years. When I first arrived here I too experienced the major differences in culture, religion and attitude toward life. Either I accepted it, adjusted to it, or I simply moved on.

How I too would have loved the power or ability to change things - in my opinion - 'for the better' - but the chances of me influencing The Powers that be - or indeed the average 'local' - was/is simply a dream!

I plan to retire in HH and I believe my experiences as an expat will stand me in good stead when I arrive there. As an example I'm well practised (conditioned!!) in the frustrations of dealing with 'local' Government officials responsible for minor issues like renewing a driving licence or stamping a visa extension. I'm used to spending hours in a que then being told I need to "come back" with another document and, having done so, being told I need to "come back with another one"!!!

But I've 'adjusted' - I had too! I soon learned to expect problems, I soon learned to remain calm, I anticipated and accepted there would be (are!) frustrations - not only in the examples given above but related to 'life in general'. The alternative would only encourage blood vessels to swell & break - or possibly worse!!

No doubt I will be 'tested' more than once when I retire in Thailand - but believe me when I say my interaction and relationships for the past 21 years with the 'locals' here has been virtually non existant! I'm so looking forward to waking up in LOS knowing from experience over many years I can talk and mix with the Thai's who I've found to be friendly and helpful folk. I guess accepting them as they are and trying to understand their ways goes a long way towards 'making things work'.

Hopefully I'm not in for any surprises and my acceptance of their ways - my attitude towards them - and theirs towards me - won't change!

TO CONCLUDE ON A LIGHT(ER) NOTE - WANDERLUST WROTE:
I think you have to forget about the word 'farang' - in my experience it is rarely being used as an insult and normally as an identification (and avoids pointing which is rude), and this is particularly so if you cannot understand the rest of what they are saying - the word farang springs out at you in a sentence, but for all you know she might have been saying [b]"see that handsome farang over there, I'd really like to get that farang's phone number but how do farang's react to that sort of thing? And to make it worse I've cocked up that farang's order and given him 3 rice when the farang only ordered one" [/b]- as she doesn't know your name it is an obvious way to refer to you.

What a WONDERFUL & GREAT IMAGINATION you have Wanderlust! The next time I think I'm being 'faranged' I'm gonna give her my phone number!! (I'll probably get arrested!!!! )

bradders
_________________
"A man who doesn't change his mind will soon have no change to mind!"

[Jockey]

Edwin(a) - for sure some of the posts on this thread have been downright rude, but others, when they have suggested you might prefer to go home are saying so in the context of the threads topic, "how do you handle living here". If you write that you are finding it difficult to cope with all the frustrating things that you have to put up with while living here, and it's worse if you want to have a business or work, then of course one of the logical options is to give up and go somewhere else.
You started the thread saying "you were having a bad week". Yes, we all do, especially over here when you have to face corruption, bent officials, bad driving and over the top red tape. I'm sure next week will be better!

[DawnHRD]

[crazy88]

Dawn Wrote

"Terms & conditions - which I know you've all read... "

Are you trying to be sexist Dawn ? You know that no man can possibly read 'terms and conditions' , 'instruction manuals ' ,'user guides' (particularly the ones that say 'getting started' when we have already had the whole thing under control for days and it is clearly BROKEN )

Joking aside I wish you and everyone on HHAD a great Songkran .

Keep up the good work .

Crazy 88

[margaretcarnes]

Edwina - you really haven't had too many negative responses to your question. Look at it as constructive criticism from a few people.
We understand that you were, as you said, having a bad week. Thats quite normal sometimes for an expat. But you have clearly got an understanding of value systems and beliefs, so I would guess you have had training in counselling or NLP or something similar. That alone should have enabled you to be able to accept different value systems in other cultures. Look at your time in Thailand as a learning experience, then decide objectively whether it is right for you.
As for expecting your classic version of buddhism there well, sorry, but no, it ain't going to happen. Accept it. Leaving because Thai Buddhist values don't fit with your own perception would achieve nothing. Staying and trying to learn and accept the differences might make you a stronger person.
_________________
'If'n ya cain't say nuth'n nice, don't say nuth'n at all' Thumper.

[Chas]

I have seen enough of Religion ( with a capital R) and religion. .as practiced in the everyday world to know that the two are often linked in name only.

I make this statement based on what I have seen of both Buddhism and Catholicism here and in other countries. There seems to be a "pure" form of the religion which you might find in an especially devout lay person, or in a monk or nun.

You might find a church or temple (or a small group) which practices seriously and for whom the Religion is a way of life and held to as closely as is humanly possible.

But for the majority of the "practitioners", it seems to be a much looser and more flexible thing, something to claim when you marry or die, something to write down on a form when asked, something that might attract your attention for an hour or two at holiday time, something that enters into your own personal belief system where it shares space with animism, "worship" of various things ( statues, natural occurrences, people. . . those magical amulets that were all the rage, tattoos to protect from bullets etc. ) and a healthy dose of believing in good luck and the signs thereof ( belief in the interpretation of dreams, lottery ticket mania etc.

Except for the tattoos, I have seen all of this among the ordinary faithful sitting in Catholic Church pews, so it seems to be a commonality to me.

I would certainly not move to a Catholic country and expect anything special of the general population or expect Catholicism to seriously affect the way ordinary people live. .nor would I expect Buddhism to have that effect here. Yes, you can see different attitudes, a different way of looking at things ( that East vs West difference certainly) but for how much of that can you blame or credit Religion. . .with a capital R? I have not come across any devout Buddhists, but I confess to not knowing any monks or nuns.

I do see people doing things like offering food and stuff to monks, buying flowers for shrines, burning incense to keep away the ever-present "pii" etc, but as with Catholics going to Mass every Sunday, it seems to be mostly an effort to avoid the bad luck that might come with NOT doing these things and/or attract good luck. Well, maybe that is what religion is after all.

[ozuncle]

Chas,
I too am not religeous. I am however amazed that you say that you have not met any devout Buddhists.
You trivialise the offering of food etc and the burning of incence as merely keeping away ghosts or avoiding bad luck.
This is simply not true.
My wife and daughter I would describe as devout, however neither of them attend the temple on a regular basis.
They do however pray privately regularly. The prayers are always related to helping other family members both living and dead.
The offerings of food are not to keep ghosts happy. They are offerings to deceased persons. It is difficult for me to describe but I understand that a Buddhist believes that the deceased people will actually recieve some form of nourishment from the offerings.
As for devout Christians, I could think of no better example than my late Mum and Dad.
Both attended church regularly and both practised their daily life in a very Christian manner.
Neither of the examples I have given could in any way be related to Monks, Nuns or Priests who in your opinion are the ones with a capital R.

I believe that that you underestimate the number of capital R's. Especially in Thailand.
_________________
You only live once.

[Chas]

Actually Oz, I am VERY religious and have a deep and abiding spirituality and have had all my life. Largely Catholic (which must be obvious) but I have a personal "open door" policy that welcomes other religions and spiritualities and practices in. I have found great comfort in many Buddhist practices here myself and certainly dont mean to trivialize any of them. I respect all manifestations of the spiritual realm.

I never pass a temple Buddha image without a wai, I always go to the temple on Buddhist holidays and I have incorporated a number of other practices and beliefs into my life including having made the kinds of offerings of food that you describe, especially to our household god. .Ganesh.

I didn't limit devotion to monks and nuns, but purposely included devout lay persons which seems to describe your parents, God bless them. I have known devout people certainly. . but we have been discussing life here and the problems,etc. .and the OP seemed to be looking for a greater degree of devotion than she/he found and that is what I was addressing.

If you look around at the ordinary Thai citizen, I really don't think much goes beyond the rote following of rules, perhaps traditions. . the same thing that brings Christian folks to Mass every Sunday. You do what "they" say you have to do and then you just go out and live your life as you feel you must. From what I see, it is a very casual, limited and relaxed approach to spirituality. .with a lot of things thrown in which are not part of the "official" teachings. And a lot of the most common activities (serious binge drinking for example) are either forbidden or discouraged. ( And aren't Buddhists supposed to meditate?)

This is all of course my own personal understanding of things, based on what I experience, see and hear around me.

I must thank you Oz for not coming in with a flaming attack here. I appreciated reading your perspective. Maybe we can keep a civil discussion going for a bit?

[STEVE G]

Whilst not having any religious convictions of my own, living for many years in countries where religion is more fundamental to life has given me some insight into the subject.

In Thailand I see that Buddhism is much more central to life in rural communities than it is in a city like Hua Hin.
I spend several weeks of every year in a farming village in Issan and I would say that the vast majority of the population firmly believes in Buddhism to a degree far beyond just conforming for traditions sake. My partner and family when they make observance to their faith quite clearly do it with complete conviction.

When she tells me about someone doing a wrong, or causing harm in some way, she firmly believes that this will result in punishment in a later life.
In fact some members of the forum will be glad to know that this punishment even extends to those that do harm to farangs, unlike my experience in Muslim countries where seeing as infidels were already dangling above the fires of hell, they are considered fair game for one and all.

Incidentally, in the Wat in our Issan village there lives a glorious old portly monk with a liking for a drink, who I suspect is a reincarnation of the legendary friar Tuck from the Robin Hood tales of my native Nottingham.