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Burger
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Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 1113
Location: Hua Hin
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 Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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malcolminthemiddle wrote:
| Quote: | Before finding a builder you need an architect who develops the drawings and specification based on your requirements.
The builder then prices the drawings and specifications prepared by the architect |
No, the logical way to do it is to find a builder or two, show them the size/standard of house you want, ie: a friends house, a house on a local development, a house from those house plan books, give him your basic finishes specification, then find out the approx. sq.m rate he will charge.
THEN appoint an architect to design your house based on the budget you have in accordance with your proposed builders rates.
Burger |
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norm
Specialist
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: architect |
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Prior to asking for a quote I gave the builder a copy of a Florida house plan that we liked. I ask him if there would be any problems building it to suit Thai requirements and maintaining essentially the same house. His response (You guessed it) NO PROBLEM.
About a week later he called and said he wanted a meeting with him (he is the interpeter) the builder and his architect and engineer. To keep it short they gave us plans they had made of the Florida house in metres. We were impressed with his quick response. He ask for 150,000 B for his engineer and architect. I said we will review it and get back with them. We reviewed it and found that when they converted imperial measurments to metric they were off an average of 35%, to small.
He called a week later and wanted a contract. I said no contract till I knew what the price would be, and what the house would look like.
We have since decided the Florida plan is probably not a good choice for Thailand as it had to many angles. So finding one of the thousands of plans available does not mean to much if built the way homes are built in US and Australia.
We are hot on the trail of a architect who even speaks english thanks to HHAD. Our land woun't be ready to build on until about September and the way things are going I'm not sure we will have it organised by then. |
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malcolminthemiddle
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Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 186
Location: Here,there and everywhere
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| Burger wrote: | malcolminthemiddle wrote:
| Quote: | Before finding a builder you need an architect who develops the drawings and specification based on your requirements.
The builder then prices the drawings and specifications prepared by the architect |
No, the logical way to do it is to find a builder or two, show them the size/standard of house you want, ie: a friends house, a house on a local development, a house from those house plan books, give him your basic finishes specification, then find out the approx. sq.m rate he will charge.
THEN appoint an architect to design your house based on the budget you have in accordance with your proposed builders rates.
Burger |
Well Burger, as a Quantity Surveyor with 26 years international experience including over 15 years in Thailand including working for some of the biggest contractors, I would have to disagree. |
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malcolminthemiddle
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Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 186
Location: Here,there and everywhere
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Malcolm, in Hua Hin there are architects working for the building department at the Tessabahn who will actually do the above/finish your drawings off for you (for a fee) and then obtain the building permit as a formality. |
Y
Who said there wasn't?
| Quote: | | You should get yourself familiarised with the local working practices here before coming on here with your sarcy 'milkman' comments and the like. |
The milk man comment was in response to an unnecessary ridicule to my post, anyway what has it got to do with you? |
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JimmyGreaves
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Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 589
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| malcolminthemiddle wrote: | | Quote: | | Malcolm, in Hua Hin there are architects working for the building department at the Tessabahn who will actually do the above/finish your drawings off for you (for a fee) and then obtain the building permit as a formality. |
Y
Who said there wasn't?
| Quote: | | You should get yourself familiarised with the local working practices here before coming on here with your sarcy 'milkman' comments and the like. |
The milk man comment was in response to an unnecessary ridicule to my post, anyway what has it got to do with you? |
ERNIE ( THE FASTEST MILKMAN IN THE WEST)
11/12/1971 - 4 weeks at #1 - 17 weeks on chart
You could hear the hoof beats pound
As they raced across the ground
And the clatter of the wheels
As they spun round and round
And he galloped into Market Street
His badge upon his chest
His name was Ernie
And he drove the fastest milkcart in the west
Now Ernie loved a widow
A lady known as Sue
She lived all alone in Linley Lane
At number twenty two
They said she was too good for him
She was haughty, proud and chic
But Ernie got his cocoa there
Three times every week
They called him Ernie (Ernie)
And he drove the fastest milkcart in the west
She said she'd like to bathe in milk
He said alright sweetheart
And when he finished work one night
He loaded up the cart
He said you wanted pasturised
Coz pasturised is best
She says Ernie I'll be happy
If it comes up to me chest
And that tickled old Ernie (Ernie)
And he drove the fastest milkcart in the west
Now Ernie had a rival
An evil looking man
Called Two Ton Ted from Teddington
And he drove the bakers van
He tempted her with his treacle tarts
And his tasty wholemeal bread
And when she saw the size
Of his hot meat pies
It very near turned her head
She nearly swooned at his macaroon
And he said now if you treat me right
You'll have hot rolls evry morning
And crumpets every night
He knew once she'd sampled his layer cake
He'd have his wicked way
And all Ernie had to offer
Was a pint of milk a day
Poor Ernie (Ernie)
And he drove the fastest milkcart in the west
One lunchtime Ted saw Ernie's horse and cart outside her door
It drove him mad to find it was still there at half past four
And as he leaped down from of his van
Hot blood through his veins did course
And he went across to Ernie's cart
And he didnarf kick his horse
Who's name was Trigger (Trigger)
And he pulled the fastest milkcart in the west
Now Ernie rushed out into the street
His goldtop in his hand
He said if you want to marry susie
You'll fight for her like a man
Oh why don't we play cards for her
He sneeringly replied
And just to make it interesting
We'll have a shilling on the side
Now Ernie dragged him from his van
And beneath the blazing sun
They stood there face to face
And Ted went for his bun
But Ernie was to quick
Things didn't go the way ted planned
And a strawberry flavoured youghurt
Sent it spinning from his hand
Now Sue she ran between them
And tried to keep them apart
And Ernie pushed her aside
And a rock cake caught him underneath his heart
And he looked up in pained surprise
As the concrete hardened crust
Of a stale pork pie caught him in the eye
And Ernie bit the dust
Poor Ernie (Ernie)
And he drove the fastest milkcart in the west
Ernie was only fifty-two, he didn't want to die
Now he's gone to make deliveries
In that milkround in the sky
Where the customers are angels
And ferocious dogs are banned
And a milkmans life is full of fun
In that fairy dairy land
But a woman's needs are many fold
And Sue she married Ted
But strange things happened on their wedding night
As they lay in their bed
Was that the trees a rustling
Or the hinges of the gate
Or Ernies ghostly goldtop a rattling in their crate
They won't forget Ernie (Ernie)
And he drove the fastest milkcart in the west |
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kmm
Rookie
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Pattaya/Hua Hin
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: English-speaking Design & Construction team |
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At the risk of upsetting moderator (again!  ) there is an option to contact local Farang-managed firms for design & building services. Yes you will find (so-called) Thai contractors cheaper but then most Thai construction is completed to different standards and requirements. As they say here; "up to you".
However, if you look on any house project of yours as an investment as well as a labour of love, then to me it kind of makes sense to pay a bit more and use the best help that you can find. In most cases I find that our customers end up making savings in other areas due to our management and assistance so don't end up paying any more in the long run.
Anyway the good news is that it doesn't cost anything to find out if we can be of any help to you at an affordable price! So PM or email me for more info.
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"Stay Flexible & Expect The Unexpected - This Is Thailand!" |
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Burger
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Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 1113
Location: Hua Hin
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | malcolminthemiddle wrote: | | Burger wrote: | malcolminthemiddle wrote:
| Quote: | Before finding a builder you need an architect who develops the drawings and specification based on your requirements.
The builder then prices the drawings and specifications prepared by the architect |
No, the logical way to do it is to find a builder or two, show them the size/standard of house you want, ie: a friends house, a house on a local development, a house from those house plan books, give him your basic finishes specification, then find out the approx. sq.m rate he will charge.
THEN appoint an architect to design your house based on the budget you have in accordance with your proposed builders rates.
Burger |
Well Burger, as a Quantity Surveyor with 26 years international experience including over 15 years in Thailand including working for some of the biggest contractors, I would have to disagree. |
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Malc, I too have worked most of my life in Project Management for large contractors on large projects.
The practices employed in those fields are very different than building a low cost house.
I'm sure you understand that you need to obtain approximate rates from a builder before embarking on employing an architect to develop a set of drawings which may end up as scrap.
Burger |
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Burger
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Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 1113
Location: Hua Hin
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Malc wrote:
| Quote: | | The milk man comment was in response to an unnecessary ridicule to my post, anyway what has it got to do with you? |
Unnecessary ridicule!? boy you get offended easy Malc.
My opinion is you often seem to try to turn debates into sarcy arguments, you're not on T.V. forum here, we are a friendly bunch, chill out a bit mate.
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cole
Rookie
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Hua Hin
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:05 am Post subject: Building cost |
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My comment about not using an architect was ertainly not meant as ridicule - simply my opinion and experience. Architects may be the best qualified providers of drawings but they do not have a monopoly and any decent CAD operator can supply you with a set of working drawings based upon owner's concept sketches - and yes he could be the milkman. More importantly the need for a properly signed off set of structural and MEP details will be expected by the Tedsabahn when permitting is sought.
An architect we use regularly charges more than a million baht per house, admittedly large houses of 12 million plus, and that does not include construction supervision. The explanation - designing and detailing a house is more difficult that detailing a billion dollar office block, also dealing with prople who are building their dream house is a gruelling task as they often have an unrealistic expectation of the amount of time that should be devoted to their new "baby"; we have one customer who tries to take up 50% of our time with his problems, when we suggest that this is unreasonable he becomes abusive threatening us with physical harm - I pity his new neighbours.
In my experience builders the world over regard building details as shown in drawings and specs as "optional" and most will look at ways of saving money if the think they can get away with it.
We meet so many disappointed "customers" who think they are buying a dream house only to arrive and find their house incomplete or so poorly finished as to be uninhabitable that it is a wonder some local (farang) builders and developers have not been tarred and feathered and put on the next train south.
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Cole |
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Blood
Rookie
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Building cost |
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| cole wrote: | | We meet so many disappointed "customers" who think they are buying a dream house only to arrive and find their house incomplete or so poorly finished as to be uninhabitable that it is a wonder some local (farang) builders and developers have not been tarred and feathered and put on the next train south. |
 Exactly! I wish I knew before I bought my house that the developer had just recently got out of jail, was a liar and a thug. I have been bullied, threatened and cheated. Not a great start to living here in Hua Hin. What I don't understand is why the estate agents don't expose these people. Instead they seem to be held in high esteem as pillars of the local community. I can't mention names because no doubt the owners of this web site would be threatened with their lifes, just as I was. I've been told many project developers are con men and cheats. They don't even have permission to run the projects and use their Thai wifes in name only to legitimise themselves. Would you really want to set up a 30 year lease agreement with these type of people? |
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cole
Rookie
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Hua Hin
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Your experiences are not uncommon; the developers here are a mixed bag.
Houses may be bult to meet the "I can own a palace for 1.9mb" market, and in reality it is just not possible, although the bar telegraph perpetuates this concept.
So back to where we started; what are construction costs? As a rule of thumb: under 12k / m2 and there is something missing or you have a problem coming; over 25k/m2 and you may be paying too much, (however when buyers select travertine marble at 3k/m2 and lighting systems that put Wembly Stadium to shame, along with fancy shower installations at 100k a throw, it is not hard to hit the higher price levels).
For all those folk about to embark upon buying or owning please consider the following:
Roughly 75% (+/-) of the building cost is in materials and they are not particularly cheap here. Quality always comes at a price.
Time is not an issue for many contractors; you the purchaser fund the construction and usually delays are not a cost issue here, as no one writes clauses for compensation into their construction or purchase contracts.
As we all know losing your cool will achieve little or possibly make things much worse. Patience is a virtue as they say.
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Cole |
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johnnyk
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Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 896
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:39 am Post subject: |
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Quite a few developers write delay clauses into the contracts actually.
But as the buyer is paying stage-by-stage then the builder must finish in a reasonable time frame if he wants to make any money.
Best to understand that TiT and things don't happen to the second like Japanese trains. Just adjust your schedule accordingly and don't try to impose it on the builder, it won't get anywhere. |
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Burger
Ace
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 1113
Location: Hua Hin
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Johnny is right, most developers put delay penalties in their contracts.
Sign a contract WITHOUT delay clauses and you can only blame yourself if it goes wrong.
To be honest many people who buy houses here are very naieve (sp) bordering on clueless.
Burger |
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cole
Rookie
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Hua Hin
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:55 am Post subject: House building |
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Burger
Sadly the last line in your post is true. So many people are seduced by the lifestyle here that they plunk down a bunch of money without really considering the consequences. I fear that there are some very glib sales people out there pushing products at people who are desperate to escape Europe and find a place in the sun. It is not a hard sell; after all it is why we are here too.
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Cole |
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Burger
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Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 1113
Location: Hua Hin
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Cole,
You are right mate, I have witnessed one or two customers read a 3 page contract before signing it. The other 20 odd did not read it, just signed it.
Burger |
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