Are you guys retired or business owners or workers ?

[Pagey]

Maybe I should start a new thread with the above post ?

MODS, help please !!
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[buksida]

No problem restarting this thread, its the same subject essentially.

Have you seen this:

http://www.classifiedshuahin.com/detail.php?id=60
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Luctor et Emergo

[big jimmy]

My advice ..for what its worth..stay in Saudi...make your money when you can....there is no real money to be made in Hua Hin..only pin money unless you build and finance property.......buying a bar is like pouring money down a drain and not worth the hassle...put your dream on hold as hard as it may seem..but in the long term it will be worth it..

[lomuamart]

Pagey,
As an ex bar owner (I sold some 6 years ago), I'd make the following points. Bear in mind that these are my experiences and I have the benefit of hindsight.
Number one - you're going to need trustworthy and reliable staff. That goes for any "partner" you may have who effectively runs the business from a red tape point of view, to your cashier and others. I feel that unless you have this prerequisite, you're lost. (If you approach the business as a business then you can get a work permit and have more control).
It would certainly help if you had some experience in the service industry. Running a bar is never easy and you've always got to be "mein host".
Hours? Well as many as you're allowed to open. In my day the police were fairly laid back which meant that we could open when we liked as long as it was an orderly house and not too loud. That meant opening at 4pm and sometimes not closing until 4am.
You do really have to be there. You'll probably be the focus of your customers' attention, unless you have the staff - re point one. I used to hate being woken up at 3pm when staff arrived to clean, knowing that in an hour or so I was "on duty" again. We lived in - a mistake for us.
Drinking habits - it's all so easy. People buying you a beer, buying them one back - ad infinitum. Personally, I couldn't control that aspect and after 2.5 years it told on me.
So, all that sounds pretty negative, but what you should do is look at the successful bars. I'll almost guarantee that they're the ones with reliable staff, a decent partner and an "owner" who dosn't drink too much and isn't on the premises 24 hours a day.
Just my tuppence worth.
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[Burger]

Pagey,

My advice, sorry if it's no help and seems negative, but never never go into partnership in Thailand.

Heard so many horror stories when times get hard. Obviously that's not every case, but it's a major risk to consider.

Do it alone if you can, even if it means setting your sights lower, at least you'll be getting 100% of the profit, rather than a share with others.

Good luck with whatever you do.

Burger

[miked]

My advice is be a real estate agent. charge 5% !!! then plead poverty. just remember to tell everyone how good the housing market is and forget to mention that they don't really own the house.
mike

[Rider]

Advice to partnership in LOS from my experiences is, unless its your own blood relative then forget it, its too risky. Or put another way, would you move to the UK and suddenly throw money into a partnership with a publican you hardly know? I don't think so either.
I wouldn't feel obliged to start a business just for the sake of it, also if you've no prior experience in the service industry you're stacking the odds against you. It can be boring if you're living long term in LOS without a business outlet so I see where you're coming from.
Whenever I get to the accolade of fully retired in LOS I'll be spending all my free-time travelling and finding hobbies and a million other stuff.
You could always do some volunteer work at the HHDRC!
woof!
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[STEVE G]

Pagey, another thing to consider is if you able to do your occupation on a contract basis, you might find that compared with the hassle of running a business in Thailand, it is a lot easier just to work for a part of the year elsewhere and then spend the rest of your time relaxing in Thailand. Another advantage to this is that in many countries you can work for up to six months a year tax free.

[buksida]

Would agree with most of the above advice, your biggest obstacle is the ever increasing amount of red tape and restrictions you'll need to get around - it is becoming increasingly difficult for foreigners to run businesses in Thailand unless of course you have very deep pockets.

With regards to a bar, there are very few successful ones all year round (they all do well in high season), so it'll have to be something pretty special to stand out from the rest.
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[lomuamart]

I'd also agree with the warnings regarding partnerships. I was referring more to the loose concept of the term, where your Thai wife or g/f runs the place - ie licenses, tax matters etc etc. You just stay in the background.
Even that can lead to problems though, as I experienced
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"I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars - the rest I just squandered". George Best.

[sargeant]

Pagey the average lifespan of a farang bar owner sole or partnership is only marginally shorter than a world war 1 machine gunner

I believe although i may be out of date but only bernies bar is still in the same hands as when i came here 9 years ago
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[Pagey]

I will reply to all your posts shortly but Sarge has brought up a good point.

Of board members that run a bar in Hua Hin, Bamboo Grove etc, how long have you been running a bar in HH ?
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[gooze]

All the posts above are pretty much giving you good solid advise. Buying a bar is similar to playing Russian Roulette. You wouldnt do that, so why buy a bar. Sorry been there,seen it, and done it. The few bars that make money here year round are run by hardened vetrans. And beleive me its bloody hard work.

Contract work or two or three extra years graft aint the end of the world if you get to spend the rest of your days in LOS.

Good luck to you whatever you do. Hopefully one day we will welcome you into the Hua Hin community on a full time basis.

[SHADOW]

Starting any biz any where in the world is going to hard work for at least a couple of years, if you already have a job that pays well I would stick with that it will be a lot less stressful than starting something here.

Bars are a good form of cash flow but very hard work, much harder than Phil or Grant ever worked. Staff problems are huge there is no work ethic here, everybody wants to be somewhere else doing something else.

Most bars change hands on average after eighteen months the reason being most people have eighteen months worth of savings then it's back to the real world to save and do it all again.

Eight years in Hua Hin and I can't remeber seeing a bar close entirely they reopen under new management and live an other day.

Some streets just a few years ago had no bars at all and now have six or seven competition is tough and the rents, electric etc are massive.

There are single shop houses here with rents of fifty thousand Baht a month, If you don't make the rent in low season worst case would be 300,000.

All the advice so far has been spot on, if anyone can make a living off a lap top then you could do that without the red tape, partner problems and all the other headaches.

I would say if poss to do six on six off is the the best way to do it but not everybody can take this much time off work. Best of luck with what ever you decide to do.

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[Pagey]

Thanks for all the replies gents and pretty much what I expected as I said in my post I went with a negative attitude because of reading nothing but negative things about owning a bar so I will try to reply to you all before it gets out of hand!!

Let me reiterate though; I will have altenative income of approx 70,000 Baht per month.

A bar is not my first choice (although I do like spending time in them ).

I want to prevent laziness and boredom which may lead me to going in a bar most days and spending 800 baht on 10 beers which would cost me 250 if I owned the bar

Buksida : I didn't realise there were classifieds, I only looked at property/business for sale so thanks for that. I work in accounts/payroll/finance so no experience in the field advertised.

Big Jimmy : I have a mate from Saudi now retired in Jomtien (for the golf) He says if you wait until you have enough money to retire then you will never have enough!! I will have done 5 years in September and yes its good money and perks. if I wait until I am 50, July 2010, I estimate my interest alone will be over 90,000 baht per month. I only want a 1 bed condo/house to rent or buy.

Lomuamart/Burger/Rider : As a partner I meant a Farang to share the workload,even though the profits would be halved, which means only going in the bar every other night for the full duration but maybe popping in for a few hours socially. I was advised by a Thai member of staff and another bar owner in Phuket that the wife of the partner whose bar I went to see was stealing from the bar so I agree, staff is a problem.

Steve G : No contract work in my line of business but good point if it were available. When I first visisted HH, Chris from Romance Bar used to go back to the UK to drive lorries for a few months then come back. I don't think he needs to now though.

Gooze : I could probably come to LOS from Sept but what can I do but I appreciate what you are saying and I did not want a bar because of all the advice given previously but what is my alternative ?

Shadow : Thanks. there is only so much money one can spend in LOS and I live a simple life, Tv for football, DVD's for movies and beer. I am also a Yorkshireman so usually manage to find the bars/restaurants where I can people watch that sell a beer for 50 baht and a red curry for 70ish so my lunch times are cheap.

Thanks to all although the advice is mainly negative about buying a bar but based on experience and truth and no more than I expected. And i look forward to more replies.
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