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Nomad
Member
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 96
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 Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| As everyone is aware, Palm hills went broke 5 or 6 years ago and has been revieved. What would happen if you leased from a co. that went bankrupt? I am very suspect of leasing from any co., agency ,etc. other than individuals. The chances of renewing every 5 or 10 years is slight unless the leaseee is under duress. There is no such thing as 30 and 30 and 30 year lease that is legal. |
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Beguine
Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| If the lessor is a company and goes bankrupt I would imagine that the property would eventually be sold by the Legal Execution Dept at public auction. Then it would be up to the new owner if he wanted to honour the lease or not but it would not be binding on him. With a lease that pays nothing to the new owner I think you can guess the answer to that one. The Land Code says that any lease longer than 30 years shall be reduced to 30 years and that is why they regard options to renew beyond 30 years as null and void. A long lease in Thailand is not an alternative way of buying, as in the UK. It is an alternative way of renting. |
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norm
Professional
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: land lease |
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Beguine
Sorry for the slow response to your information. Had guest from Australia that keep us on the go for the last week.
The usufrunct lease sounds interesting but when I consider my age (73) and my wifes (10 years younger). I don't think I'll worry to much about outliving the 30 year lease and it would be nice to pass it on to the kids. Who by then may want to retire here.
A Thai wife of a friend said she would be happy to work the lease using her as the landowner. She is willing to have the lease drawn up any way we like and would be willing to renew whenever we wanted. We do trust her and she is about 25 years my junior so should be around at the end of 30 years.
It should be pointed out that if all we got was the 30 years out of the lease it would be no tragedy and I feel we would have gotten good value for our money. Additional time would be nice and make the kids that much happier.
You are right having the house in our name is a definite advantage as I had to use a friend registration verifying we had a address to buy our car. It would have been nice to do it without assistance. I have to apply for a Thai driver license soon and I believe it would make that easier also.
We are grateful for the information it all helps.
The land will not be completed until Sept. so we have that much time to finalise how to handle the lease and find a builder. We are not looking forward to the building process. Have heard some real horror stories from friends who have built. Seems to cause heaps of stress to the marriage.
Any suggestions on a good reliable builder would be appreciated. |
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johnnyk
Ace
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 1123
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:00 am Post subject: |
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I agree that leasing is really just long-term rent. You own the right to occupy the land for a term. What becomes of the house when the lease expires without renewal? Nobody really knows, as said it's a relatively new idea that hasn't yet been tested in court.
In the west, some people rent all their lives and have nothing to show for it despite paying rent for years and years. My friend's parents did this and he inherited much less than had his parents bought a home freehold.
Right now usufruct is an avenue I'm planning to explore in greater detail. If I can have a usufruct then lease the property to my daughter when she is 20 years old then that would be worth doing.
In my dreams I'd be happy as Larry to see 99-year leases enacted but pigs don't have wings. |
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Burger
Ace
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 1115
Location: Hua Hin
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Johnny,
What about the idea of tearing up the lease after say, 10 years and taking out a new 30 year lease (due to being happily married or enacting the buy-ouy clause on a developer) ??
Then doing the same 10 years later, maybe by then our children are old enough to lease it off them.
People seem to get hung up on this 30 year thing, and whether lessor is still alive then etc etc.
It's seems the best option to me, until they let us have 99 year leases.
Burger |
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Burger
Ace
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 1115
Location: Hua Hin
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Also I've heard that Siam Commercial Bank are going into partnership with TLM and offering 40/50% mortgages to foreigners.
Siam Commercial Bank hold the land titles and 'promise' to honour the 30 year extensions.
TLM are revising their pricing structure to make it more affordable as well, according to the report I heard.
Pinch of salt and all that.
Burger |
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buksida
Moderator
Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 5218
Location: south of sanity
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Just a thought ... does anyone know how much it costs to renew one of these leases after 30 years ... or even 10?
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johnnyk
Ace
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 1123
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Burger wrote: | Johnny,
What about the idea of tearing up the lease after say, 10 years and taking out a new 30 year lease (due to being happily married or enacting the buy-ouy clause on a developer) ??
Then doing the same 10 years later, maybe by then our children are old enough to lease it off them.
People seem to get hung up on this 30 year thing, and whether lessor is still alive then etc etc.
It's seems the best option to me, until they let us have 99 year leases.
Burger |
Burger,
My developer offers this but I'm still not sure as it is still only a leasehold and in the back of my mind a diminishing asset if I wish to sell up.
Someone mentioned somewhere though that if plots in a development are leased out for 30 years it is unlikely a third party will want to buy that land from the lessor as he would be bound to the leases in effect for years to come.
I'm still undecided but have a few months to make up my mind. |
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sargeant
Ace
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 1860
Location: Hua Hin
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Buksi you will need the patienc of job before you get an answer am still waiting  
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A Greatfull Guest of Thailand |
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Burger
Ace
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 1115
Location: Hua Hin
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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buksida wrote:
| Quote: | | Just a thought ... does anyone know how much it costs to renew one of these leases after 30 years ... or even 10? |
Currently 11,000 Baht on an average plot of land (500 sq.m) 5km from town.
Obviously that amount varies by land size and location to town.
A bargain if it 'buys' you a new 30 year lease.
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Nereus
Guru
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 597
Location: Hua Hin
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Beguine wrote: | | Norm, since my last visit here I have been doing more research on usufruct vs lease and the two main advantages seem to be: 1) a usufruct can be for the life of the usufructary, not limited to 30 years; 2) you have an absolute right to reassign by letting the land to some one else. If you die during the course of the lease you have assigned, the owner has to honour the rest of the lease. Apparently a couple can have a usufruct agreement which runs until both pass away. This doesn't do much for passing an asset on to your heirs but should give more security that some one would not be kicked out in their 80s when a 30 year lease might have expired. PM me if you want the name of a firm that has been doing these agreements. If going for a 30 year lease, I would agree with JW that noting a further option to renew for 30 years would be worth doing, if the Lands Dept official will allow it. But under current law it is not enforceable as a court will only accept an actual registration of a lease at the Lands Dept as evidence of default by the owner. The craze of selling villas to farangs started less than 30 years ago, so none of these options to renew have been put to the test. Hopefully things will improve in the next 30 years and I expect that some form of longer lease will eventually be allowed. 50 years is already allowed for commercial or industrial property. BTW since I think you said you were going to build a house, you can register ownership of the house and get a house registration book, if the developer is willing to apply for the building permit in your name and you have a long lease or a usufruct on the land. If you are retired here a house registration certificate is very useful for buying cars, opening bank accounts and many things as it puts you in the same league as a permanent resident. The only foreigners who can get them are permanent residents, owners of condos and owners of houses. |
I was speaking with my lawyer in Bangkok today on another matter, and asked him about usufruct. He was adamant that the land dept will no longer register one of these contracts. He is an assistant professor of law and at one time used to recommend these contracts, so I tend to believe him.
Now, this may only apply to Bangkok Metro area, I did not ask him, but he does do work regularly in Phuket, so I think he would have said if that was the case.
Maybe the best way to be sure would be for somebody to go to the land office in Hua Hin and ask them.
He also claims that, providing a lease is drawn up correctly, that farangs have the full backing of the law and should not be concerned about problems in the future.
The only problem I have with that is; it is THAI law we are talking about!
Hope the above is of some use to somebody.
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May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil know`s you`re dead! |
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caller
Legend
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 2381
Location: Londonistan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:18 am Post subject: |
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Can I have a pound for every time Burger says, "he's heard" this or that (whisper) - I might be able to afford one of his properties!!!
No offence, B - I like what I've seen of yours, its just you're like a fish swimming against a never changing tide!
I really hope it all works out for farangs at the end of the day and hope Burgers optimism is justified, and unlike most, I avidly look out for the posts on property, but even I am beginning to think enoughs enough!
By the way, I just came back from St. Ives (again) - its the lure of Penwith, its history, culture and physical experience at this time of year but the town itself has property prices on a par with London - still. I stayed on a place overlooking Porthmoer beach, great views, nice shared kitchen/lounge with a bedroom upstairs, yours for upwards of 300k.
First time I've come back without a piece of art, its what married life does to you.
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Burger
Ace
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 1115
Location: Hua Hin
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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caller wrote:
| Quote: | | Can I have a pound for every time Burger says, "he's heard" this or that (whisper) - I might be able to afford one of his properties!!! |
Bit harsh Caller, I do remember the following "Ive heard's"
1) Last year when the land office stopped all transfers and many were saying it was the end of the world for farangs owning properties, I did 'hear' and post it only applied to developers. A month later land transfers were back to normal for people buying one house.
2) When the Ministry of Commerce issued new regs about forming companies and everyone said Limited Companies for farangs was over, I did 'hear' and post they only wanted copies of bank statements. Forming companies was back to normal.
3) When the new exchange controls ruling came in about 30% deductions and everyone said they'd have to pay 30% more now, I did 'hear' and post that property was exempt. The Minister confirmed it 3 days later.
4) I did 'hear' and post the other day that commercial banks in conjunction with TLM will be offering mortgages to farangs, that's happening.
5) I did 'hear' and post that the new rules about companies having to restructure their voting rights within the next two years excluded List 3 of the FBA, where our companies are set-up to operate. Others were saying it was the end of the world for us all.
To even it up for you though, I did 'hear' last August that Chelsea were going to win the league again, got that one wrong hey 
Burger |
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caller
Legend
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 2381
Location: Londonistan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Who say's Chelsea won't win the league - huh!
But let us know when you hear that farangs can own land and/or have a real fair lease on the land, when you can stay there without numerous hoops to go through, that all the changes that keep happening are at an end and that if I invest my money, no-one is going to take it from me by yet a new version of an old/new law, I'm sure there's more.......? 
But otherwise, I take your point! 
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JimmyGreaves
Guru
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 682
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I also heard chelsea WON'T win the league Also heard spurs won't win sweet fa for a while! |
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