Afghan Heroin

[Super Joe]

Current News:

[sandman67]

heres one a UN drugs analyst mate worked out based on stats and intell....

take global drug policing and enforcement budgets...put in one bank account.

toddle off to Afghanistan, Laos, China, Burma, Columbia, Peru etc.

Buy all raw drugs at source from the farmers. While there have a few days off, take some pictures, buy some interesting ethnic gear etc.....

Now burn all the drugs, use them to make medicine, etc....whatever you want. Use some to treat addicts.....theres an idea.

Go home, kiss the wife. Open bank statement......

Surprise surprise theres two thirds left still in there.

No drugs available, (or very few anyway .... which would be stupidly expensive so way out of budget for joe shmo ).

Use the two thirds left to start programs which support ex drug-farmers wanting to change crops to something like fruit....hey thats what HM The King did and it worked for him and the Thai Hmong....maybe old Abdul in Afghanistan will do it too....pomegranites and stuff for sale, corn and maze for the family...a few goats and stuff....

Use some more to treat addicts in a humane manner....try giving them stuff like controlled doses of heroin instead of methadone....better for them actually.....and hey we have all this heroin sitting round anyway

Now what do all those customs men and police and army do? Ahhh well theres still all the nasty buggers who were selling the stuff wholesale...the Escobars and Arifs of the world......to get rid of.

Buy em some better kit.....fund them to chase and eliminate them....smash FARC into the stoneage.....send the Taliban a Paveway for Xmas. Worked on Pablo so maybe do the same to the others?

after that use the now underworked bobbies to pound the beat like in the old days....get the now underworked armies to start building hospitals schools and roads.....

after all.....two thirds left is a truckload of dosh to spend on better stuff.




His boss threatened to sack him if he spoke on that angle at a seminar.....vested interests see....and Im not talking about the drug producers We cant have joe public realising that the current policies just piss money up the wall and dont work at all. "Sod that....I have a job to think of....."

Read Howard Mark's reasons and framework for the legalisation and controlled sale of marijuana......makes a shed load more sense than any national or international policy I ever read.
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What, me....the 13th Duke of Wimbourne, alone in a town full of nubile young ladies....with my reputation? .....Tally ho!

"To sin by silence makes cowards of men"

[Guess]

And the farcical thing here is that the opium trade exploded in the years running up to the Iranian revolution. It was rumored that the rebels were using it to fund their activities. Probably true, I don't see where else they could have got their cash.

When the Ayatollahs took control they swiftly outlawed the production of Opium and its derivatives. The epicenters of the regions' production moved to the outlying areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan in areas that were outside the range of Government and Russian aerial gunships. Much of the profit got into the hands of the Mujaheddin to enable them to fight the war against the communist invaders. Weapons and training were supplied by the British and Americans so it is not surprising to learn where the drugs ended up.

In the vacuum created by the Russian withdrawl the Taliban seized control of the Opium trade to fund their own revolution. Only a small percentage was left in the hands of the anti Taliban Northern Alliance.

When the Taliban took control they destroyed all the plantations and banned the practice of Opium cultivation.

Like the Ayatollahs before them they did not want like bad guys in the eyes of the world.

If you make the assumption that whoever controls the country controls the Opium trade, you must then ask who is it that has got Afghanistan's production back up to, and above previous record levels.
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Remember. A turkey is for life not just for Christmas

[STEVE G]

I’ve read one article that was basically stating that when the Taliban tried eradicating opium production, it never actually happened to the extent that they claimed.

Apparently the opium warlords were all in cahoots with the corrupt local Taliban leaders who all claimed huge reductions in production to keep their leadership happy, whilst allowing the old growers to continue in remote areas.

It was claiming that this was why after the Taliban was routed; production seemed to surge back to the old levels in a very short time.
I’ve no idea how true this is, but it sounds plausible.

[spitfire]

Probaly true Steve G, how many are caught at this sort of stuff who are supposed to be whiter than white, but are really just self-serving meglomaniacs. All gas and no substance. Suppose the problem comes from the idiots that actually believe them in the first place.
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Friendly Fire – Isn’t

Nothing is absolute, apart from vodka.

[sandman67]

the only real way to effectively control the international drugs trade and take it out of the hands of criminal gangs like the Arifs of London is to legalise its sale and control access to it.

That would require western governments to admit:

1) They are failing miserably at the moment; and,
2) They will never be able to control consumer desire for the products.

The situation as is can be directly compared to the alcohol prohibition years in the US.....everyone still drinks, they just pay more to criminals instead of the government and legit licensed premises and producers.

Criminals get rich, governments look like fools, consumers are criminalised and sold uncontrolled and variable (and sometimes lethal) product. Everyone, except the criminals, looses.

Legalise it, regulate the product, strictly control access, tax it, and use the tax revenue to smash the "bootleggers" that remain active.

Prohibition never works....never will. Time for a rethink.
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What, me....the 13th Duke of Wimbourne, alone in a town full of nubile young ladies....with my reputation? .....Tally ho!

"To sin by silence makes cowards of men"

[STEVE G]

One of the big problems with legalizing narcotics is that you would still have to conform to all other regulations on pharmaceutical products that would require you to have a prescription or whatever, so you couldn’t just start selling them like sweets.
You would have to test them for years and drug companies would be very wary of liability over usage and being sued for every person that managed to kill themselves with the things.

[sandman67]

Steve

interesting points.

In the case of marijuana that would be best put in the hands of companies like the tobacco companies, most of whom have registered trade marks in anticipation of legalisation. Sale would be restricted to over 18s...same rules as baccy or booze.

Its OK to sell them so why not the other? Causes much less damage and deaths.....yet also as is criminalises a good percentage of the UK population and puts money in the hands of criminals......seems dumb to me.

Reefer madness? Make me laugh.

see further The Streets' "The Irony of It All".....

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-9006969429167543038&ei=VeCvSLvkJI22wgPXzOzaDA&q=streets+irony&vt=lf&hl=en

In the case of coke and heroin, as well as the pills, then those could be regulated through supply via chemists, having required a card and clearance from your doctor before hand.....same abuse and public liability laws to booze apply. Unregulated or improper supply lands you in stir. Manufacture/processing done by govt regulated labs.

NO MARKETING ALLOWED AT ALL. Pubic information as to supply issued by govt. No TV or media ads.

Product would then be standardised, regulated and some degree of control applied. Tax revenue would be gathered, and criminals taken out of the supply chain.

As is we waste money on ineffective and delusional policies and enforcement efforts, criminalise otherwise law abiding citizens, and put money in the hands of criminals and terrorists.....

Which would you rather have?
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What, me....the 13th Duke of Wimbourne, alone in a town full of nubile young ladies....with my reputation? .....Tally ho!

"To sin by silence makes cowards of men"

[dtaai-maai]

Sandman: "pubic" that's the second post today you've missed the 'l' in 'public' - are you having keyboard problems, or is it just a bad hair day...?

These are fairly old arguments, though no less valid for that. I'm in the 'stop farting around and legalise the soft stuff' camp, pretty much along the lines laid out by Sandman, see how it pans out and take it from there. As for Steve's point about the risks of manufacturers being sued, although the tobacco companies have been sued left, right and centre, I don't think alcohol companies have been sued for alcohol-related deaths. Thinking about it, I wonder why not? Maybe they have? If tobacco companies were to take this on (as they probably would), I'm sure they would cover their arses from a legal point of view.

There is a Home Office Drugs Inspectorate which deals with the supply, manufacture, storage, etc of all legal drugs, and from the little I know of them, it's about time they had some work to do.
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Never argue with a man carrying a water buffalo...

[Super Joe]

Controlled, regulated supply in general might work for the addicts, but there will still be a market and dealers for the recreationals, the majority of the market.

Have a read about how meth (ice) is exploding in the US and UK, will be worse than crack was in the US. More addictive, longer high, worse come-down, more aggression, toxic mixing ingredients bought over the shelf and cooked in some clowns bedroom/garage, content as he sees fit

SJ

[STEVE G]

In the Netherlands they got around some of the issues of legalizing Cannabis by coming up with this idea of decriminalizing the act of using it, but not actually making it legal.
The “coffee shops” are allowed to sell and stock limited amounts of it, but there is no legal way they can obtain it, it has to be purchased off the black market.

[spitfire]

[sandman67]

I really admired Holland for its system, and holding out against pressure from the US and UK....but as Spitfire reports it seems they finally have caved in and are slowly phasing it out. The US and UK could never stand the way the Dutch made the controlled supply model work in practice.

This always made me laugh tho

[STEVE G]

[Super Joe]

They've banned tobacco in the coffee shops already, I put up a thread about it a little while back, didn't know they are going to do same for the grass ?
http://www.dutchamsterdam.nl/324-amsterdam-coffeeshops-smoking-ban

SJ